Gen.Kdo. XXXIII A.K, Seekommandant & 702 I.D.

[Panzerwerk]

Hallo to all,

When looking on the wonderfull site of the ARN I noticed
that three important staffs were located in Trondheim that haven't been accounted for, as far as I know . Does anyone have
any clue where these staff had there HQ ?

- Gen Kdo XXXIII
- 702 I.D.
- Seekommandant Trondheim

Thanks in advance,

[JornN]

Hi
Gen Kdo XXXIII was at Hammersborg Lager close to Sverresborg (the museum area). Those barracks are no longer there, only a underground shelter.
702 I.D. are equal to MarineFlakKommando 702 I suppose?
This was located in a Sonderbau-bunker at Kuhaugen, near Persaune Lager.
This bunker commanded 7 10,5 cm batteries and what would have been 3 12,8 cm batteries around and in Trondheim. All Marine-Flak.
This bunker is still there at the premise of the Royal Airforce Academy.
The Academy is partly located in german buildings.
I don't know where Seekommandant Drontheim had his office, but I would guess it couldn't have been far from Admiral Nordküste. These admirality-offices were located in "Folkets Hus" (The Peoples House) in the centre of Trondheim. Later Nova kino and more. The alarm-station was at Charlottenlund in the "Norblitz"-bunker. This bunker is also still there.
There were also barracks and other smaller bunkers around Norblitz.

[Panzerwerk]

Hallo,

> Gen Kdo XXXIII was at Hammersborg Lager close to Sverresborg (the > museum area). Those barracks are no longer there, only a
> underground shelter.

interesting to read the shelter is still there. Is it a large one ?

> 702 I.D. are equal to MarineFlakKommando 702 I suppose?

702 I.D. should be an Infantry Division, alas Heer-troops
Generalleutnant Karl Edelmann (1 Sep 1943 - 11 Feb 1945)
Generalleutnant Dr. Ernst Klepp (11 Feb 1945 - 8 May 1945)

> This was located in a Sonderbau-bunker at Kuhaugen, near Persaune
> Lager.

On the pictures this bunker looks very impressive.

> admirality-offices were located in "Folkets Hus" (The Peoples House) in > the centre of Trondheim. Later Nova kino and more. The alarm-station > was at Charlottenlund in the "Norblitz"-bunker. This bunker is also still > there.

Most of the Seekdt were located downtown, most likely near the harbour. A lot of them have been in tunnel complexes.

let's keep in touch

Peter

[Paul S.]

Hello
Seems like KM had lot of offices in Olav Tryggvasonsgt.( 5-11 ?)
If i have got it right SEEKO Trondheim should be at Nordregate 8.
Paul S.

[Panzerwerk]

Paul,

Helpfull as always ;-)

Thanks!
Do any of the members from Trondheim have an idea if
any constructions were built close to Nordregate ?

Peter

[JornN]

Hi
I haven't forgotten you, I just needed some time to check on a couple of the locations you mentioned.
I have no information on Nordre gt 8. Where do you "PaulS" have this information from?
It's fully possible that this was the location of Seekommandant Drontheim.
There are no other constructions that I know of, than a underground waterreservoir in the park between this building and Stiftsgården (Reichkommisariat) in Munkegt. Nordre gt 8 is just another of the many central buildings occupied by the germans.

Here's a map on some of the more important occupied buildings in central Trondheim.
Explanation of the numbers:
1: Folkets Hus, Olav Trygvasons gt. 5: Admiral Nordküste (as I stated before)
2: Nordre gt 8 (see picture below). Seekommandant Drontheim?
3: Stiftsgården, Munkegt. 23: Reichkommisariat Drontheim
4: Hotell Phoenix, Munkegt. 26: Stadtkommandant Drontheim
5: Misjonshotellet, Kongens gt. 26: Sicherheitsdienst, SD
6: Trondhjems Sparebank, Kongens gt. 4: SS und Polizeigericht Nord
7: Tinghuset, Munkegt. 20: Organisation Todt
8: Frimurerlosjen, Kongens gt. 3: Deutches Haus

There were many more occupied buildings of course. This is just a few.
The pictures show some of the different location mentioned, and some mentioned earlier.

The "Adminbunker Persaune" is probably the Sonderbau-bunker you thought might have something to do with 702 I.D. This is not so, this bunker is part of the Navy-camp at Persaune.

The "Flagruko Kuhaugen" is the commandbunker for MarineFlakAbteilung 702 and probably responsible for alerting the fighters at Lade airport.

At the picture "Hammersborg by Sverresborg" you can see what was left of the camp of Gen Kdo XXXIII. Marked with red lines. The yellow dot markes the airraidshelter inside the hillside. The blue lines markes parts of the camp connected to Ugruko Blyberget. Blyberget to the left.
Position of "Löveapoteket", which was the officebuilding of 702 I.D., is marked with an arrow. This is located inside Sverresborg Museum.
See "Part of Sverresborg with Löveapoteket marked", and "Löveapoteket, Sverresborg, offices 702 I.D."

Last, there are two pictures of "Folkets Hus" and Nordre gt 8 (marked with a red dot).

[Paul S.]

Hello

I have no information on Nordre gt 8. Where do you "PaulS" have this information from?

Its notes from german papers, late 1944.
Could mention that the "Hafenkäpitan Drontheim" was at the Custom House at Brattøra, MSS Brattøra close by, the MNO Marinefunkstelle(one of ?) was at Søndregate 14, same was the (a?) MNO telex office.-
As mentioned other KM offices was close by. The SEEKO should be in same area, and as mentioned a have noted Nordregate 8. im not 100 % certain if its SEEKO, or just one of the offices for SEEKO sub units.
Paul S.

[Tore E]

[quote="Panzerwerk"]Hallo,

> Gen Kdo XXXIII was at Hammersborg Lager close to Sverresborg (the > museum area). Those barracks are no longer there, only a
> underground shelter.

interesting to read the shelter is still there. Is it a large one ?

[Tore E]

From the construction.



and another one



and yet another

[/img]

[Panzerwerk]

Hallo Jörn and Tore,

Thanks for the very interesting pictures and the extra info.
It seems there have been a lot of interesting bunkers in
Trondheim. Were any Hohlganganlage built close to
the 702 ID offices at Sverresborg ?

Jörn: normally a FLakgruko commands the navy AA-batteries.
The bunker at Lade should be the Fliegerführer Nord (indeed
a fighter command)
How far is the Folkets Hus located from the Charlottenlund complex?

The Nordre gate doesn't look like a really impressive building, but
if German doc state it was used by the Seekdt ...

All very interesting info ! thanks.

Peter

[JornN]

Hi
What would be the english word for "Hohlganganlage "?

About Flagruko Kuhaugen: Yes, as I stated above - this was the command-bunker for the big navy Flak-batteries around Trondheim:
"The Flagruko Kuhaugen is the commandbunker for MarineFlakAbteilung 702".

The distance from Folkets Hus to Charlottenlund is 4,2 km in a straight line.

[Panzerwerk]

Hi,

Thanks !
Indeed, but no direct relation between the Flakgruko
and the Jafü, other then that the two would most likely
share information.

best word for Hohlganganlage is tunnel system.
In Western-Europe all higher staffs (division and upwards)
had at least some kind of protective command facility. So,
when we can establish the defintive ('43-'44) location of
a staff a commandbunker or tunnel should be close by
(max 500m)

Same goes for the Admiral.
4km is a lot. COuld it be the seat at the Folkets hus was the
HQ until '42 after which Charlottenlund with it's barracks was
used ?

PEter

Peter

[Paul S.]

Same goes for the Admiral.
4km is a lot. COuld it be the seat at the Folkets hus was the
HQ until '42 after which Charlottenlund with it's barracks was
used ?

I dont know about this, but its a similar setup in Bergen.
Adm. Westküste had its bunker and offices aprox 3 km from the city center.
Folkets hus had several KM offices, its seems like it could be mostly "Verwalttung". The SEEKO offices at Nordregate 8 seems also to be "Verwalttung", not the SEEKO himself.
Paul S.

[JornN]

Hi again
To clear up one thing: I didn't state a direct connection in command or likevise between Flagruko Kuhaugen, beeing a Navy-command, and Flightcommand at Lade, beeing a Luftwaffe-command. But Flagruko would most likely have been the first to get information about allied airforces moving in, and therefore sending this information straight to the Luftwaffe commands at Lade and Værnes along with info to their own batteries.
This is an assumption based on indications, but I won't say it's an absolute truth. There might of course be another explanation.
The Rustkammeret Museum downtown Trondheim probably got this information, but I have not yet been in contact with them.
There were a telecomcable lain between all the major commandcenters and batteries. This went all around Trondheim in a circle so the signal could be sent the other way if the cable was broken. So sharing information should be an relatively easy task.

As for tunnel systems: There are two tunnel systems in addition to the airraidshelters by Blyberget. One underneath the Sverresborg-plateau, which was as far as I know in use by the Stadtkommandant. This one is faceing "Løveapoteket", and has two entrance-tunnels into one big room.
The other one is underneath Baglerhaugen, a small hill close to the Sverresborg-plateau. This was an alarm-command of some sort, but I don't have enough information on this. It's said that when an airraidalarm sounded, officers arrived in cars and went inside. This cave has one passage with 3 rooms connected to it in addition to the entrances.
On the top of the Sverresborg-plateau there was a light Flak-battery of two 2 cm's and one 3,7 cm.
I would like to get a lot more information on these caves at the Sverresborg Museum.

I don't know of any tunnels in connection to "Norblitz", but then again - this was a bunker.
At the end of the war, a 12,8 cm Flak-battery was under construction at St. Hanshaugen south of Rotvoll. Several tunnels were started here, and this is not far from "Norblitz". But those were started very late in the war and was never finished.
If the offices at Folkets Hus were only "Verwalttung" from some point, I don't know. But it must at least have been the Admiral's headquarter until they erected the bunker at Charlottenlund. I have heard "Norblitz" spoken of as a alarm-command.

As Paul S says, Nordre gt 8 might have been only "Verwalttung".
If so, the office of the Seekommandant could very likely have been located at Nyhavna (where Dora I and II is). The most likely candidate then is the building of "Vinmonopolet", which was a new building at that time.

The first map is part of a german map from sept 1941 with Vinmonopolet marked. The second map is how the area looks today.

Last, I have a request: I would like information on where "Deutche Zeitung" and "Frontbuchhandel Drontheim" were located, both in the central part of Trondheim. The "Frontbuchhandel " most likely in a cornerbuilding - possibly made of concrete or bricks.

[Panzerwerk]

Jörn and Paul,

thanks for the info so far. It's an interesting topic.

But Flagruko would most likely have been the first to get information about allied airforces moving in, and therefore sending this information straight to the Luftwaffe commands at Lade and Værnes along with info to their own batteries.

Indeed, that sounds the most logical.

The Rustkammeret Museum downtown Trondheim probably got this information, but I have not yet been in contact with them.

Is that the 'police' museum I have heard people talking about?
it seems a lot of information and plans are located there..

There were a telecomcable lain between all the major commandcenters and batteries. This went all around Trondheim in a circle so the signal could be sent the other way if the cable was broken. So sharing information should be an relatively easy task.

An 'Umgehungsleitung'. One often see this, also in France and around important HQ.


As for tunnel systems: There are two tunnel systems in addition to the airraidshelters by Blyberget. One underneath the Sverresborg-plateau, which was as far as I know in use by the Stadtkommandant. This one is faceing "Løveapoteket", and has two entrance-tunnels into one big room.
The other one is underneath Baglerhaugen, a small hill close to the Sverresborg-plateau. This was an alarm-command of some sort, but I don't have enough information on this. It's said that when an airraidalarm sounded, officers arrived in cars and went inside. This cave has one passage with 3 rooms connected to it in addition to the entrances.

Sound all very interesting. Any idea if plans of these systems are available. I often visited the archives in Germany, but there is just
so much info to process... I suppose a lot of questions could be answered
there. I have some plan of Drontheim I think, I will bring them this summer.

I don't know of any tunnels in connection to "Norblitz", but then again - this was a bunker.

Has Nordblitz been visited by any of the guys on the forum?

At the end of the war, a 12,8 cm Flak-battery was under construction at St. Hanshaugen south of Rotvoll. Several tunnels were started here, and this is not far from "Norblitz". But those were started very late in the war and was never finished.

I also have a plan of a planned tunnel near Charlottenlund. Not very big, but interesting.

If so, the office of the Seekommandant could very likely have been located at Nyhavna (where Dora I and II is). The most likely candidate then is the building of "Vinmonopolet", which was a new building at that time.


Interesting. So much questions still to be answered..


Peter